.jpg)
Allison Park Leadership Podcast
A podcast where we have culture-creating conversations.
The world today is too complicated and messy for Christians to avoid tackling the difficult questions.
Hosted by Pastor Jeff Leake and his son Dave Leake, the Allison Park Leadership Podcast is a series of conversations designed to help Christians navigate challenging topics in our faith and culture today.
Allison Park Leadership Podcast
Judgment Day, Reverence, & Spiritual Awakening
Dave and Jeff Leake discuss the importance of addressing sin, God's holiness, and the need for a spiritual awakening.
They highlight a viral clip by preacher Philip Anthony Mitchell, who emphasizes the urgency of repentance and the reality of judgment, and reflect on the impact of such bold, authentic preaching and its potential to spark revival.
Tune in as they draw parallels to historical revivals and the hope for a new spiritual awakening in our world today.
LinkTree:
https://linktr.ee/AllisonParkLeadershipNetwork
Email:
Jeffl@allisonparkchurch.com
Davel@allisonparkchurch.com
Instagram:
@Jeffleake11
@Dave.Leake
Today, we're going to be talking a lot about sin and God's holiness and our reverence for God. We're talking about judgment day. And in a lot of ways, those are scary, intimidating topics, but ones that we absolutely have to address. There's a clip from a preacher starts out with two little fingers in the air, but he's talking about how we're all going to stand before God someday, and so we're grappling with this, what does it mean that God is holy and ultimately, what would it take for us to experience the next spiritual Great Awakening in our generation? If you want to find out more, tune in Hey everybody. Welcome to the Allison Park leadership podcast, where we have culture creating conversations. I'm one of your hosts. My name is Dave, and
Jeff Leake:my name is Jeff, and we're glad you've joined us today. And again, we're both on staff at Allison Park church. We're father and son, and we love to have conversations about what's going on in our world. We deal with theology, we deal with culture, we will deal with a bunch of stuff. But before we get started today, Dave, we want to give you congratulations. Come on, baby, your new dad. Tell us all about it. Who was born into the world?
Dave Leake:Yeah, our second son, John, Jeffrey leak was born. Jeffrey
Jeff Leake:Lee, come on, I got a namesake violet. Yeah. I
Dave Leake:was born on, on Friday, yeah, like five, almost
5:30pm so he's home now, probably sleeping,
Jeff Leake:yes, so Dave,
Dave Leake:I'm not sleeping,
Jeff Leake:but he is. You look like you're ready too, though you have that new dad look on your face, man, your eyes are, yeah, like, almost, almost shut.
Dave Leake:Well, James is also waking up the crack of dawn. So, yeah, so
Jeff Leake:how old is James? He's
Dave Leake:the older brother. James is too. John is, you know, few days, and John doesn't sleep a lot at night, and James wakes up at the earliest time possible. That's the harder thing of having two kids for me so far. I mean, there's other things that are challenging, but there's, like, a alarm clock I can't get past, like we could sleep in before. I mean, when it was just James, but anyway, yeah, so
Jeff Leake:cool. Congratulations. For me, it's grandbaby number nine, and I think that's like five, five boys and four girls and so, yeah, we're very excited to it's an awesome day. And do we have some people to shout out now? We want to do that from absolutely yeah.
Dave Leake:So to start, we wanted to say thank you to everybody who's listening, or if you're watching on YouTube or Spotify, or wherever you're watching from. Thank you for joining in. We want to specifically give a shout out to Kit Kat 97 you know, thank you for your kind five star review. And if you'd like a shout out, specifically, Apple podcast shows that shows us the name of the reviewer. So if you want to leave us a review, we would love that you can also, you know, share this with friends. Leave us a review on whatever you're listening to on, you know, like, like and subscribe on YouTube. Man, my words are not going to be totally crisp today. I can feel my brain like trying to get like, Wait, tongue needs to work, okay, but thank you. Thank you so much. Let's, let's jump into our topic today you showed me so
Jeff Leake:Kit Kat 97 actually left us a comment too on here. Sure. Go ahead. So she said I learned so much by listening to the episode on abortion and the American Dream makes me rethink my ideas on pursuing the American dream at all costs. Very thought provoking. Thank you, pastors. So we have just come through this season in our culture of a lot of intense discussions. I mean, the election just happened a couple about a week ago right now. So we have President Trump, 47 now. He was 45 and he's now 47th president of the United States. In August, we talked about American things like Marxism, and we talked about Christian nationalism, these sort of two sides of the political extremes, I guess you would say, and in our world. And then we had this episode on abortion the American dream. And I guess the episode we're talking about today is in some ways in this package of conversations that we're having, because we're talking about how, I think we all realize that our nation, and probably we want to broaden it to nations in Western society, we're in need of a move of God, like we need a revival or spiritual awakening, whatever terminology that you want to use. Many of us, I think, are expectant that we could be in the last days. You know, we're in the last era of human history. Maybe Jesus is returning soon. So there's a lot of thought around political tensions and and and the struggle that our country is in right now. But I think we want to go past that today, and we're going to talk about this whole concept of of, you know, what's involved in a move of God. I think this is a solution, solution oriented, kind of conversation that we want to have today. So I know I jumped in there. Sorry. Keep going with what? Oh,
Dave Leake:yeah. Okay. So, so that what sparked this conversation between us, yeah, was you stumbled across an Instagram clip of a of a preacher that's just kind of spitting fire. And you're like, check this guy out. I was like, wow. Like, it hits sort of in a different way. So. So,
Jeff Leake:yeah, so, so I'm on social media, you're not. And I was just doing, I was just doing some scrolling, you know how you do, and I was going through a particular thread. And I get a lot of preachers in my feed because, of course, that's primarily who I follow and what, what my field is. And, you know, you heal a lot. So I post clips like this, right of me preaching actually matter. Producer helps produce these two little one minute clips of of a little best part of the message on a weekend, and you hear it and and you might say, Oh, that's good. I'm going to share that. Or you might say, Oh, that really helped me today. So there's a lot of little mini clips that happen on social media, but this particular clip left me feeling conviction, like I don't know how to describe it. It was just a brief, quick clip that I saw, and it started, I think what caught my attention is it starts in almost an offensive way, and I was like, What did he say? And then I tuned in and I listened to it, then I replayed it, and I replayed it again. And every time I replayed it, there was something in his voice, something in his tone, something in the conviction of what he was saying that brought me to a place where I was wanted to weep like I felt. I felt the presence of God. I felt the the awareness of God's holiness. And you say, Boy, that's must be some clip for just like a minute, but it really does have this effect. So tell us, maybe we should probably, so sure, yeah, well, first I think we should introduce so this, this pastor's name is Philip Anthony Mitchell. We, we don't know Philip, um, he's got an enormous following in social media, over 350,000 followers, and he pastors a church in Atlanta, right? So what's the name of his church? Anyone? It's
Dave Leake:a 19 church. Okay.
Jeff Leake:Why is it called 2819 Matthew, 2819 the Great Commission. Okay, so it looks like it's a large church, but I think he's also an evangelist that does some traveling anyway. Philip Anthony Mitchell, if you're someone forwards this to you, there's some pastors in Pittsburgh that would love to get a chance to meet you, because we can tell that God's hands on your life. And so anyway, we're gonna listen to this clip. Okay. Again. It starts pretty intense. He makes some gestures here. Put it on. I don't want anyone to be triggered by
Unknown:what they see, but screw Jesus and F Christ and all this stuff. You're not going to be that tough when you die. Give me that camera all that blasphemy. You spitting. You're not going to be that tough when you die. That's why the Bible says, In the day you hear the call of the gospel hardened not your heart. For the writer of Hebrews said it's appointed for man to live one time and then he must stand judgment. Ain't nobody bringing you to the conference to hear this message, because it don't itch the flesh, but it stirs up something in the soul and makes a wretched man says, I need God,
Dave Leake:yeah,
Jeff Leake:had that same effect on me every time I see it wakes you up. Yeah, it's crazy. I love that. So there's something in this voice that is not just preaching truth. There's a tenderness to it, there's an urgency to it, there's a call about it. There's a compassion and in what he's saying. And then there's a sort of a vision about the future, one day we're all going to stand before God, and what are you going to do? Then well, you know, you have this sort of bold, cavalier attitude right now about things of God, one day you're going to stand before him, and what are you going to do when you have to face God? Yeah, and you know, are you ready for that moment? And there's a, there's just a, there's like, I don't know, heavy, heavy conviction upon his words. And when I when I heard his him talk, I was like, man. I said, first, this would be great, great thing to talk about on a podcast. But secondly, I think that there's something he's hitting on here that seems to be present in any great revival or spiritual awakening that has happened in the past. And I think there's something that he's hitting on here that is also necessary for the spiritual awakening that we need to happen within our culture today. And you said, Dave, that there's something in the way that he says it that is very attractive to the next generation, right? Well,
Dave Leake:yeah, I guess, but it's probably just what you're talking about. I don't know that's the way that he says it. It's probably the it's the it's the unvarnished, full bore, not worried about what people think. Just this is what the Bible says, And this is truth, and it's not judgmental, and it's not I mean, he's not being like, he's not putting down certain people. He's just like, we're we're missing it, if we think this isn't real, and he's coming at it, you know, full I don't know. I think, I think what? What from what I understand? I'm not Gen Z. I'm a millennial. But the next wave of young people, I think what they're looking for is not, you know, make everything easy, you know, ease me into all the Bible stuff. Skirt around the uncomfortable stuff. Don't trigger me. Let me come in. Have 60 minutes of a good time, and then get back to my schedule. I think what, what Gen Z is looking for, and probably a lot of millennials too. But I think the younger you go, they're looking for, like, the hardcore, like, what? Just, just give it to me.
Jeff Leake:So, why? Why do you think that's the case? Oh, there's so. Because we, because it feels like, in many ways, that their generation has been treated more softly than most. Yeah, right. It's the, I guess your generation became more the participant, participation trophy generation, right? It's like everybody's a winner. There's never any hard truths, ever said. Everything is convenient. Everything's delivered to your fingertips through whatever device you have. It feels like Gen Z would have that even more, right? Because they have grown up in this, you know, Safe Space culture, where you know you're we're very careful about not saying anything that's triggering or offensive. And so you're saying is, actually there's a longing and a hunger for our unvarnished Tell me the truth, yeah. How are both of those things true at the same time? Well, I
Dave Leake:don't think, Okay, this is, this is sort of me like speculating. I don't think most Gen Z ers are actually, I need to save space and don't want to be triggered. Okay, I think most Gen Z people live, live in that reality where they know people that are like that, and, you know, I'm not, I'm not knocking anybody who's dealing with any kind of trauma or whatever that, you know, that has some things to work through. But I think that there is a, there's a hunger to not Doctor things up, to not be to not have to toe the party line, you know, to not have to just say the right things and worry about using the right language. And so I think, like sometimes, like churches that are too, too sensitive to anything triggering. Can feel inauthentic. There's, there's a huge value in authenticity. Okay,
Jeff Leake:so you, you're saying that this is not so much a longing for someone to sort of hit you over the head with truth, but more just to be raw and authentic and not, and not filtered and programmed to where it well, it's probably both been reduced,
Dave Leake:okay, probably both. Well, so hit you over the head of truth, I guess, if you mean in a judgmental way, probably not, but to give you the full double barrel truth, yeah, that's just like, here it is, you know, and you need to know. And especially he's, he's like, pleading and urging.
Jeff Leake:Yeah, it was a pleading to it wasn't it, yeah, it wasn't angry, although you could have felt that way because he was so intense. It wasn't really angry, no, it was a pleading. It was like, Don't you see this, can't you don't you understand this is coming for you? Yes. Don't you realize judgments on the way? Like, I'm asking you right now to open your eyes to see what's there. Because what are you going to do if, if, if you end up there and you haven't been, you know, if you haven't been saved, like, wow, I if I was away from Jesus, His something about his his conviction and the and his spirit affected me. Yeah, even in a Instagram clip, it's It's powerful. It's kind of like, you know, so Dave, I've been feeling this for a little while. I think I mentioned this on one of the podcasts in recent times where I said, you know, makes me think sometimes, when you have someone who's fallen and they've blown their family apart, or they've blown their ministry apart, or whatever, they've chosen a path of selfishness, what happens for that person when they stand before God, even as a Christian, like, what's, what's the judgment moment like For us, right? I've been thinking a lot about that judgment moment, like one day, it's not just that we're going to be stand standing before God and being evaluated. I think when we think judgment, we think that one day you're going to stand before God and you're going to be evaluated, and God's going to make a decision about you. But I think there's also something about one day you're going to stand before a holy God, like there is a piercing holy glory that's heavy and weighty and and makes you circumspect and aware of your flaws. And one day, you're going to stand totally exposed and vulnerable before the Holy God of the universe. And it kind of reminds me of i. Isaiah chapter six, where Isaiah ends up in the presence of God. And it says, in the year that King Uzziah died, I saw the Lord high and exalted, seated on his throne and the train of his robe filled the temple. And then it says, there were these angels flying around, Seraphim, who had all these different wings. And they were saying to one another, holy, holy. Holy. Is the Lord Almighty. The whole earth is full of his glory. And then it says, At the sound of their voices, the door posts of the thresholds shook, and the temple was filled with smoke. And Isaiah says, Woe to me, for I'm ruined. I'm a man of unclean lips, and I live among a people of unclean lips, and I have seen the King, the Lord Almighty. Now there's something about this particular experience. Isaiah has that I sort of feel a little piece of when I'm listening to Philip Anthony speak, and it's like, it's almost like the the veil has been pulled back for a minute and and the, it's not terror, but the awareness of, you know, one there is this Holy God who created everything, is all powerful. Who is? Who is to be, to be respected, the greatest, most powerful being in all of the universe, who is absolutely 100% pure in every way. One day I'm going to stand before him, and I'm going to have to face him, not just give an account for what I did. I'm gonna have to face God. And I think that's what he was saying. Like, right now you're being all Cavalier and you're and you're using his name and blaspheming him all Catholic, but one day you're going to have to face this holy God. What are you going to do then? Like, he get he sort of brought me in behind the veil to say this is coming. We should all be prepared for this. We should be aware that one day we are going to face a holy God. And if you're messing around with your life, you're forgetting the fact that we're all going to stand before a holy God one of these days. And that that grips me, like I felt moved by that. And I think that if spiritual awakening is going to come to our culture, it's going to have to come by that veil being removed a little bit in us, being able to sense who we're really talking about when we talk about the Almighty, yeah.
Dave Leake:So, so, okay, let's, let's, I think we're talking about something that we haven't exactly put our finger on, which is, you keep talking about a revival, right? Yeah. But like, we're, you're, you keep, I think you said awakening a few times too. There were like three different periods of world history in the last few centuries called Great Awakenings. Yeah, which is, which was some of the greatest revivals the world's ever seen. I think the first one was in the 1720s something like that. And then there was 117 90s. The second one, both were in England. And then in the 1850s I believe there was, well, there was
Jeff Leake:more like 18, 1810s and 20s. Then there was another one in the 1850s then there was Azusa Street Revival in early 1900s okay, I'm not sure that they're all called Great Awakenings. Probably the first couple in our western culture were called Great, Great Awakenings. But there's these seasons where people are coming back to God. The Reformation was one of those seasons in the 1500s too, right, right? So I think probably in the time period I was alive, the Jesus revolution season in the 1970s was an awakening of sorts. So, so there's, there's times in our culture where there does seem to be a massive move of God, where people become aware of their sinfulness, repent, and they get right with God in Christ, and it totally transforms not only their life, but it transforms the culture at large. Yeah. And what I'm saying is, I think we all realize we desperately need another spiritual awakening in our culture, yeah. So,
Dave Leake:so the question we're talking about is, what would it What? What does it take to get there? And there's, there's some element of what we see in that video. Yes, it's, it's the ethos of what, yeah. So
Jeff Leake:in the first Great Awakening, there was a similar message that was preached by a preacher by the name of Jonathan Edwards, yeah, and he preached a message called sinners in the hands of an angry God. Now that sounds even more intense than the one we heard from Philip Anthony McClellan. Is that his name? McMillan? Anyway, I get, want to get the guy's names right, so you can look him up. Mitchell. Philip Anthony Mitchell, okay, what is his name? Again? Okay, in the in the message, Jonathan Edwards preached in the 1720s, and 30s about the sinners and hands he basically pictured. He said, you know you're God, it's like he has his hand on you and you're a spider that he's attached to the web, and he's taken you, and He's held you over the abyss of hell, and he's got you suspended there, and he is wanting to rescue you, but he could drop you in at any moment. What are you going to do with yourself? Because you're you're a sinner, and you need to turn from God. You fooled yourself. You think you're right with God, but you're not. You need to turn from your evil ways and run into his arms so that he doesn't drop you in and that that message, which from. What I understand in the 1720s it wasn't preached with this kind of skill, like Philip Anthony Mitchell is just bringing it like, right? What a communicator, right? So it isn't just that he's a great preacher, no, it's what, it's what's on him and what he's saying in it. So, so you know, Jonathan Edwards was reading this message in a Presbyterian Church in the 1719, 1700s right? And as even as he gets to that part of the passage, people get up out of their seats, and they run to the front, and they throw their themselves on the ground. You read
Dave Leake:the testimonies from that from that term, they shriek. People felt like they were being dragged into Hell,
Jeff Leake:yeah, like then people were up and being deep who were demonized were being cast out, even as they heard them the words from his mouth, right? It was like, Wow. It's so a real, genuine move of God that happened. Now, if you go back and try to read that message, it's very thick. It's written in 1700s style. But what, what Philip Anthony Mitchell is saying has a similar prick in my spirit. It's like, Man, I mean, there's something about that. Well, I
Dave Leake:think it's, it's not just the it's, it's, it's bold, it's aggressive. There's a an urging and a pleading, like you can tell he's longing for restoration. Oh, man, my brain's foggy. Oh, you know what? I just forgot to say, I'll jump in since you're tired. Yeah, yeah, it'll come back to me in a second. Well, there was another revival. Oh, I know it was gonna say, Okay, go ahead. Oh, sorry, lost it for a second. And I think that's where we're gonna go. The other part of it, I think, is really intense, and is part of the mix, is his reverence, and he talks about the holiness of God, like you were talking about the curtain being pulled back, but he's like, he's it's not just biblical truth. It's not moral truth. It's not just a behavioral adjustment. He's like, there is a reality that there's a holy God that you're gonna stand before. Like, he's like, he you ain't gonna be that tough when you die. That line, it's like, well, so it's like, it makes you, you think about death, and then you're like, Oh, what, what am I going to be like after death? And then his, his description are just the the, I don't know him talking about that judgment day moment before God. It is compelling and convicting. And I think there is a big, there's also a big movement back towards the reverence of God in a lot of churches. I think there's a longing for that to because, like, irreverence is so common, you know, like talking about Jesus, especially Jesus in our culture, it's not just atheist, it's like, regardless to what worldview you're in, if you're not Christian, everybody's
Jeff Leake:co opting him. Yeah, he agrees with everything, I
Dave Leake:think, or you'd totally destroy him, yeah, you know, right, right? It's like, it's like a symbol of, you know, the patriarchy and old ways and traditions, and it's holding back. Everybody
Jeff Leake:wants to make Jesus out to be what they think he is, rather than getting to understand who he really is. He's a real person, right? He really
Dave Leake:has become the enemy of humanists, of humanism, which is that the idea that all people are or they have, tried to make him into a humanist, one or the other. Yeah, Jesus is that, or he is, but he is, he is an enemy of humanism. Yeah, absolutely, he is. I think humanism is totally flies in the face everything of the gospel. And I think that's what Philip Mitchell is doing there. He's like, wake
Jeff Leake:up, yeah? Like, this is a big deal. He's not trying to attack an ideology, though. No, he's just, he's just appealing to the sinner, yeah, consider your ways. Get right with God. But he's attacking irreverence, yeah, irreverence, yeah. And I think, and I think too, in our in our Western culture, the way that popular Christianity has been over the past 30 years, Jesus is like your best buddy, and he hangs out with you, and you can count on him. And there's a certain truth to that, and he and he gets us all. There's the commercial series that's all like, wherever you are in your journey, he gets you, and he does and and he loves you with a love that's beyond what you could ever understand. And even if you fail, he's there to forgive you. It's true, it's true, it's true. But there's another side to the story, which that he also is a holy, righteous God that does not mess around with anything that's sin, and that when we stand before him, we're gonna have to give an account at that point in time when we stand before God in judgment, he won't be your best friend like he will be he is. No one loves you more than he does, but at that moment, he also is a righteous judge that we'll have to give an account for our life with and and he is so it's not just about his mood. Sometimes, I think we we confuse the mood of God with the person of God. Here's what I mean. It's not like God looks at him you is angry and he's ticked and he's disappointed and he's it's not his mood or his disposition, but he is holy, yeah? So what is what does that mean? So I heard one illustration. It's like if you take a piece of tissue, tissue paper, and you put it next to a flame, it will be instantly consumed. So God's a consuming fire, yeah? Like he cannot fellowship with sin. It's not like he chooses not to. He. It's impossible to so that's why, that's why we have to be declared righteous to get even close to him. I heard one pastor give this illustration. He said they just built this brand new building. And, you know, he was walking through the new sanctuary, the new auditorium that had been built with the the person that did the construction, with the person who owned the construction company. And the pastor was was marveling. He was like, Man, this is so great. Look at all the pain on the ceiling and all the all the accouterments around the the space. And they had a balcony to this space. And he and there was one of those big spotlights, you know, that they used for theatrical performances, and the and the lights were turned on. And the pastor said, let me turn this spotlight over here on this corner so we can see the detail of your work. And the construction president said, Oh no, no, no, no one's work can stand up under that kind of light, you'll see all the flaws. Like if you see that the natural light, you won't see the flaws. But if you turn intense light on that you're going to see all the cracks, and you're going to see the, you know, the mistakes, and it's not designed to be viewed. If it was going to be viewed in that kind of light, it would have to be done with a lot more precision. And I think that's sort of, in some ways, what Philip is saying here is, he's saying one day when you stand before God, your life is going to be judged under intense light, because the glory of God is going to be there, and as soon as that starts to happen, like Isaiah, so woe is me. Look how damaged I am. I didn't realize how far away from God's righteous standard that I am, and how much I need His mercy and His grace. And so spiritual awakening is that it's when you become aware of who God is and his holiness, and you begin to realize how unholy you are, and your heart begins to cry out for the solution that you need to have God transform your life so that you can be able to stand this presence without fear. And I think that that's part of what our culture is desperately in need of. Yeah,
Dave Leake:yeah. I think our church, I think churches are in need of that too. Yeah, you know, there's, I can't remember for the life of me if we've had this discussion on this podcast. So if we have, have we talked about, have we talked about, like, sin recently, like, I guess maybe in general, we have, I was having a conversation.
Jeff Leake:Have we talked about sin? That's a real general.
Dave Leake:Have we talked about be like, you know, Jesus says, like, Be perfect as I am perfect. Okay, so, so I think, like, one of the, one of the potential problems with the way we discuss theology about sin and so sanctification is the word that means becoming like Jesus over the course of our life, being transformed into the image of Christ. You know, when, when we, before we get saved, everybody is, is the phrase, right? We're a dirty, rotten sinner. You know, that's, that's the common language for it. We're far from God. We're imperfect. We're not inherently good with a little bit of bad. We're inherently, you know, we're inherently broken. We're inherently a mess. But what happens is, when we give our life to Jesus where we are, we put to death the old self, or raise up the new life. God doesn't see us from our past anymore. We are made, you know, righteous because of Jesus sacrifice, we attain a measure of holiness. And you know, the Bible talks about perfecting our holiness, that's the journey of sanctification. But I think one of the things that maybe is a disservice in our churches, that sometimes we say like, Oh, we're all just sinners saved by grace, as in the present sense, like, I'm a sinner saved by grace. You're a sinner saved by grace. If you're not saved by grace, yet we're the same. It's just whether or not you've been saved by grace. But really, like, the Bible doesn't talk about people that have been saved as sinners anymore. Like, are we then? Well, where I mean, if you want to use an older term, we're supposed to be saints. Yeah, we're people that define
Jeff Leake:that term. Because it's not because, when you say saints, they think of it in terms of sort of the superhero people,
Dave Leake:people that live as dead to sin, people that live by the Spirit instead of by the flesh. So it's, it's, it's not that we will never struggle or never sin, but if, if there's almost a defeatist mindset, yeah,
Jeff Leake:it means saints, I think means the holy ones, or the sanctified ones. Oh, I'm
Dave Leake:sorry, the actual death. Yes, right, yeah. So
Jeff Leake:when we say we're supposed to be saints. We're supposed to have been transferred from death to life, from sin to righteousness, yeah, from impurity to purity, from unholiness to holiness. Not that we're perfect in and of ourselves, but we're being made perfect because of the grace of God and the working of the Holy Spirit and our willful choice to align with what God wants us to do. Yeah,
Dave Leake:I'll find this in a second. But you know, Paul writes, you know, if you, if you do these things, Paul, if you do these things, you'll never stumble. Jesus says,
Jeff Leake:what is that? I mean, I think that's Peter. That might be First Peter or Second Peter, where he has. Written
Dave Leake:down. And I know it's verse 10 of something, yeah, I gotta find this really quick, yeah.
Jeff Leake:So, so, as you're looking that up, one of the things I'll add to what I said before Dave is this, Oh,
Dave Leake:you're right. It's Second Peter, 110, yeah. Go ahead, read it. Yeah. Okay. Let me get to a version I want to read. Okay. So he says, the person, yeah, a person who lasts these things is blind, short sighted as as,
Jeff Leake:yeah? So read it from the beginning, because it, it actually talks about, in this, is it first Peter or Second? Second Peter, one, second Peter. Chapter One, it talks about a an intentional process that we should be going through in our life to become what we're supposed to be, yeah? Actually is like a layering. It says, Good. Read from the beginning. Okay,
Dave Leake:so start in verse three. It says, um, his divine power has given us everything required for life and godliness through the knowledge of him who called us by His own glory and goodness. Okay,
Jeff Leake:stop there for a moment. So it says, God's divine power has already given us everything we need to be godly. Yeah, yep. So rather than us having a defeated mindset and saying, I'm just a sinner saved by grace. We're saying I've been given the divine power of God and the person of the Holy Spirit so that I can become everything God wants me to be. I don't. I'm not doomed to failure any longer. I can live up to what God is calling me to be. So keep looking
Dave Leake:by these. By these he has given us, wait, did I Yeah, okay. By these, he has given us very great and precious promises, so that through them you may, you may share in the divine nature escaping the corruption that is in the world because of evil desire. So right there, it's talking about sin nature. Yeah, you know, for this very reason, make every effort to supplement your faith with goodness. Good of this goodness with knowledge, knowledge, knowledge with self control, self control with endurance. Endurance, endurance with godliness. Excuse me, godliness with brotherly affection and brotherly affection with love. For if you possess these qualities in increasing measure, they will keep you from being useless or unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. Then work this passage I was reading now, the person who lacks these things is blind and short sightedness for God and the cleansing from his past sins. Therefore, brothers and sisters make every effort to confirm your calling and election. Because if you do these things, you will never stumble. For in this way, entry into the eternal kingdom of our Lord savior, Jesus Christ, will be richly provided for you. So basically, that would
Jeff Leake:be a great series. By the way, add to your faith goodness into your goodness. What is the order says,
Dave Leake:Yeah, goodness, goodness to knowledge, knowledge with self control, self control, self control with endurance, endurance. Godliness, godliness with brother, brotherly affection and brotherly affection with love, yeah, yeah, right.
Jeff Leake:So all of these qualities, if you're intentionally pursuing them, lead you to a place with because you have the divine nature operating in you, you'll be able to have victory, yeah?
Dave Leake:But like so the way that I think Christians in churches, Christians and churches tend to understand passages like this, is it's like an ideal, if you think of yourself as a sinner, saved by grace, still it's like, well, yeah, but I'm gonna stumble. I'm gonna constantly struggle with sin. I'm not even sure if I go a day, let alone an hour, let alone a minute without sinning, because I am a dirty, rotten sinner. But it's like, no, that's actually not reflected in the New Testament at all. Yeah? Like it's an
Jeff Leake:identity thing, yes, right, right? My identity is not as a sinner anymore. I'm a saint, right? And I'm not defeated. I'm more than a conqueror. I'm a child of God. I'm an heir of the kingdom. I'm co heirs with Christ. I'm a prince or a princess. I am the righteousness of Jesus. I mean, these are, these are all the truths about us and things we should be living up to and into, rather than living down to our old selves and our old failures and our old our old patterns. I
Dave Leake:say all this just because I'm saying I think if we view ourselves with the wrong identity, the expectation is that we're always going to struggle. So it's like, well, why even try for perfection? Because perfection is impossible. Maybe to some degree, that's true, but we can live like restored people that don't struggle with sin the way that
Jeff Leake:we have. But somehow hearing that list and hearing those verses doesn't have the same effect on me as when you have a John the Baptist. You're right. You're right. That says to you, Hey, wake up. Yeah,
Dave Leake:yeah. Hey, judgments
Jeff Leake:coming. You're gonna stand before God, yeah. Are you ready for this? Like there is something about that particular thing right there where the conviction of the Holy Spirit is involved. And I actually think Dave, this is a part of what is, is maybe one of the missing pieces of this conversation that we're having, and that is, it's not enough just to know where you need to be, yeah. It's not even enough to know that God's power can get you to where you need to be. Yeah, you need the conviction of the Holy Spirit, yes, to be motivated to want to change. And without conviction, there is really little movement towards a righteous life, yeah. And many, many of our environments lack conviction, yes. So a lot of times you can go to church and there's no. Conviction in the room. Well, because
Dave Leake:we, I this is part of what I'm saying. I think we just give so much allowance for sin because we expect people to, because we're all sinners, yeah? So a lot of churches have created environments where it's like the main goal is to not be judgmental, yeah?
Jeff Leake:But, but I think there has to be So, okay, let me we're diagnosing now this man of God's delivery a little bit. But I think, I think Philip Anthony Mitchell, in what I he has shown us in this clip, when I'm what I felt from his life was this, he's digested this reality to the place where it's no longer a principle with him. Yeah, right, right. He's, he's, he sees things through the spiritual spirits eyes. Yeah, right. And he's looking at the people he's preaching to, and he's like, you are in bad shape. You're in worse shape than you realize. Yeah. And this has hit me to such degree that not only can I teach it to you, I'm so gripped with your situation that I'm pleading with you to get right with God, yeah, because he a lot of preachers preach the the truths without the conviction of it in their own lives. But when the conviction falls on you and you start to realize the people that are ministering to are in a dangerous place. Yeah, they're, they're they're they're they're headed in a very bad way, and their life is spinning past them, and one day they're going to get I have to warn you, like, that's what I think it is. He was worrying them. I am warning you about something that's happening in your life and happening in our world, and you got to get right with God. Like, and he's not just saying this to non Christians, he's saying it to everybody. Yeah,
Dave Leake:he might even been talking as much to Christians. Yes, he was talking to me. Yeah, right. Like, let's, let's
Jeff Leake:not just put it into other categories. Sure, I heard him, and I was like, Oh man, I need to get I need to get in prayer. Like I felt this compulsion inside that I needed to deal with it. And there's something really awesome about the boldness that comes on on that I think we should hear him again. We gave there's another clip. This one is even more intense. We thought we would build. I don't know if it's possible to be more intense equally. It's equally So Matt, go ahead. Let's run clip number two from Haven't
Unknown:you not read where it says neither the sexually immoral or the homosexual or the idolatrous or the one who practices divination, neither, none of these people that do any of these things will enter into the kingdom of heaven. I'm trying to stop you from going to hell. Come on, man, you don't want to hear that. I know you don't listen. I'm closing. I know you don't want to hear that. Dang it. My foot feels like it's broken. Listen to me, man. All you want to hear is blessings and you're awesome, and God is Finn and a dude, and he's about to do and Finn and a dude, that's all you want to hear. And you like a bunch of dope face cracked up on bad doctrine. God hates sin. And every time you hear something that convicts you, it's a good thing, it lets you know your heart is still sensitive to God. And every time you read something that convicts you, it's a good thing. It tells you your heart is still sensitive to God. And every time you feel convicted, you know what the Lord is trying to do. He's trying to woo you in just a little bit closer.
Jeff Leake:That's so good, sheesh. That's what I feel, what he said at the end, when I feel conviction. I don't want to run from God. I want to, I want to. I want to run to him. I feel the urgency of the moment. I want to run. I want to run to i i feel like, man, yes, yes, yes. I want you. God. I need you. God. I want to weep. I want to throw myself on the floor. I want to cry out to God for His presence in my life. I want to cry out to God for His for for a move of the Holy Spirit in our nation, in our city and our community. I want to pray for Allison Park church to come to a place of repentance, like something inside of me is gripped by this. And maybe this is not just Philip Mitchell's preaching. Maybe God's doing something in me anyway, yeah, like, well, but it's just triggering me. Like something is developing inside of me. There's a longing inside of me for a season of awakening that we get the real thing, and the presence of God starts to move. You know, there was, there was an era in the 1990s of revival. And the revival that went on in the 90s, there were two sort of locations, one in Canada, one in the United States, the Toronto Blessing and the Pensacola Brownsville revival. And there was a lot of things with that revival. It was, it was, it was wild. There were a lot of external Holy Spirit manifestations that were unusual. There were, there were, you know, there was controversy around it because of that, but people traveled from all over the world to go to those two places. Well, Brownsville revival was a little different from Toronto's, in that there was such an emphasis on repentance. In fact, there was a pastor, evangelist that was there named. Hill, and he preached just like this guy. At the beginning, toward the end, he got a little mean, I'll just say, but the beginning, he preached just like Philip Anthony Mitchell here, and Steve Hill was just calling people to repentance. And I remember being skeptical and going down to Brownsville, Dave and I was sitting with a friend of mine from from Pittsburgh. He lived in Pensacola. He was away from God, and my assistant pastor was there. And at the end of the message, Steve started calling people to repentance. And this guy that was away from God that we we just hung out for dinner because we happened to be in his town. As soon as the message was done, he ran down the we were in the balcony, ran down the stairs and ran the altar, cut right with God, and that that stuck for the rest of his life. So like that 30 years ago, like he's still following Jesus today. Like it was so gripping that it wasn't just a spiritual experience that I had one day, like something really changed in his life. Yeah, and the song that they would sing at the end of every altar call was come running, come running to the mercy seat, and they would start to sing that song, and people would get up out of the seats and run to the front and get saved. It was powerful. And I think revival, or spiritual awakening is always marked by that. It's marked by this awareness of God's holiness and and His presence and His love, but without compromise. Yeah, and, well, the he, what
Dave Leake:he was saying in that clip that I was trying to reference earlier, when I was talking about Gen Z. This is, this is, like the essence of it. He says, like, everybody just wants to hear, God's about to do God's
Jeff Leake:getting ready to do this. So
Unknown:what did he say? God's
Jeff Leake:fitness. So basically, that's what you talk about a lot on this podcast, which is, yeah, almost like a fatigue with God's God's got destiny for you, and he's got blessing on your life, and there's a future for you, which is all true stuff, sure, but maybe we've oversold that aspect of it and not talked enough. Because it
Dave Leake:feels like the focus is on a good life. It feels like the focus is like, not on God or or who he is, or our reverence for him, or His Holiness, or living well, or judgment, which I understand, you can get religious from that perspective, but it doesn't. It's not a religious message. But like when it, when it gets to be just like, you know, just a breakthroughs right at the other side of this mountain, there's
Jeff Leake:a cloud right, just speaking in faith, and it's gonna happen. It's exhausting.
Dave Leake:No, it really is, because it just feels like, okay, okay, there's a lot more there than just that, that that's that's needed. Yes, I needed you. It's
Jeff Leake:not that it's untrue. It's just that it may be imbalanced if there's not the other side of it,
Dave Leake:and breakthrough might not be on the other side for everybody, if you're, you know, living far from God, like, true, like, maybe you're not experiencing breakthrough for a reason, yeah, you know. And just like those messages, they feel like they're not, it
Jeff Leake:almost feels like that. What do you call that? Sort of you manifest things? What is that like? Yeah, yeah, right. Almost like New Age, in this new age where you're going to manifest this, or you're going to manifest that. And it almost is this distortion of the gospel. Well, the Gospel comes with all kinds of things that he wants to bring into your life that are a part of your covenant inheritance. But it's not that you can just manifest a better life. This is, you
Dave Leake:know, what it feels like? It feels like the opposite of Matthew 633 to me, because he's saying, like, don't worry about this or that, or clothes or food, you know, But seek first his kingdom and righteous, righteousness, and all these things will be added to as well. It feels like so many sermons are focused on the all these things. I know you're waiting in all this, but God's doing it. He's doing it right now. It's like, that's not the point. You see what I mean? That's how I saw. The point is, don't
Jeff Leake:worry about that. Yeah, focus on the kingdom. The
Dave Leake:kingdom and right? Take care of the other stuff. Yeah, the kingdom and his righteousness. What's almost like your partner becomes the means to the end. Yes, like, what? What's your part like? So when he's saying focus on the kingdom, he's talking about expanding the kingdom, yeah, like, making Jesus known, like, like, as
Jeff Leake:an average so consumed with that, that you don't even think about the other thing, because God
Dave Leake:will bring it to you. But when it's just like, God's bringing it, God's bringing it, it's exhausting because it doesn't it feels like disingenuous to me. It's like, well maybe like, Yeah, I know he's doing that, but isn't that the result of focusing on kingdom and righteousness? And if you're not doing that and you're out, like, you know, okay, I'm not trying to be judgmental. But if you're, if you're like, living totally far from God, if you're living you know, you're just partying and, you know, and getting hammered and doing whatever else you want, and then you go to church and you're just like, waiting for breakthrough. It's like, well, that that comes with the relationship with God, with the intimacy with like, becoming like him, and I just, it just feels like it feels fake to me and many people, when it's always just, here's what God's getting ready to do. Because it's like, well, there is, do you know I'm saying? Yeah, no, I
Jeff Leake:hear you. I hear you. So that pleading
Dave Leake:message, I think, is it's so attractive and refreshing, not just to you, but I think to a lot of us, because it cuts through the noise. It's. Yes, it's the opposite of what's out there, you
Jeff Leake:know, there was, there was, you know, okay, in both of these clips that we just watched, there were triggering moments. He starts out by actually putting his middle finger up and giving the action step of someone who's blaspheming. God, okay, so that's a little bit intense. He was very, I guess you'd say authentic and real with that particular expression. Then in the second clip, he starts out quoting from Second Corinthians chapter six, about the verse that where it says these things, no one will inherit the kingdom of God. And he names sins that are if you say them out loud in the way that he did, sexual
Dave Leake:immorality, homosexuality, triggering to our culmination witchcraft. But, yeah, right. But he says it
Jeff Leake:in a way that I don't find offensive in any way, shape or form. I think he says it a way that is like I'm thankful when he's done like you painted the picture for me of the reality and the truth of a holy God and His standards for life. And he's saying to he said, What during that second clip, I'm saying this because I don't want you to go to hell. Yeah, right, yeah. Like, I'm not telling you this because I think I'm better than you, or I'm a religious dude, saying this because I don't want you to go to hell. And hell is the final destination, if anyone's not right with God, yeah, and it's time to get right with God, like that. I don't know. So I, I'm really encouraged by this. Yeah, I'm, I'm, I'm praying that God will raise up a new, next generation of spiritual awakening, that that whatever has happened in the past, sometimes you wonder, in a way, has our culture gone too far? Are we now truly post Christian, and will never experience the kind of awakenings that have happened over the generations in the last three or 400 years as Western culture now the lights are turned out. You know, Jesus says, if you if you preach to a village and they don't receive you, you shake the dust off your feet and you walk away. Has God looked at our society, and said, the lights are turning out now, because I mean Europe that they have sort of preceded us. You would say a lot of Europe has become very spiritually dark. And so the wondering is, has have we gone too far in our in our nation, in our culture, to experience an awakening like what he's calling for, and and what I heard from him said, maybe there's hope, maybe we could see another one of these. I have to believe
Dave Leake:that. I mean, that's sort of a pessimistic viewpoint.
Jeff Leake:Well, it is. But I think, I mean, don't you at sometimes look at what the world around us, and the polarization, the tension even within the body of Christ, and the permissiveness towards sin and, well, I mean, I mean, you know, even like we, we talked about a couple months ago Dale, the infiltration of pornography on all levels of, yeah, right, of society, and how it's infecting even kids minds and and you start to think, how do we what do we do? Like, but one moment in the holy presence of God where you say, you know, like Isaiah said, Woe to me, because I'm a man who's undone, and I'm in a people of unclean lips, and I have unclean lips too, like I need God to touch my life so that I can be purified. Spiritual Awakening is when that happens on a massive scale. Yeah, so I'm not trying to be pessimistic, but don't you, at times look at the culture and say, Are we too far gone for that?
Dave Leake:I don't think any too cold, any culture is too far gone because it
Jeff Leake:feels it's just feels like it's more unlike, okay, sure, more. It might be a more uphill
Dave Leake:battle, because it's a, it's a, it's a anti church, or anti Christian culture that is starting to become the norm. But it's like, well, any culture, like, I mean, you know he was in you is more powerful than he does in the world. Like, like, there is a greater force than just the power. I mean, I know you know this. I'm not saying anything new, but I just it's just like, well, of course, of course, we can still see a revival, like it could happen in Europe. I think the church, the church at large in America, needs to strengthen itself and to ditch and dump the water down gospels that maybe are there, like in some places. I'm not trying to bring shame on anybody, but, like, I think we have to get back to it, yeah, you know. And to pursue revival and to pursue, like, a real spiritual awakening where man, where we're bold enough to not be afraid of the blowback from saying the wrong thing. And what if people pick it up on a media clip, and they can take stuff out of context, it's like, well, that's what the Bible says, though, you know, if you take it out of context, it's like, okay, you know? And yeah, but there is
Jeff Leake:something about the vessel being properly prepared. I can't speak to Philip Anthony Mitchell's life. I don't know him. I want to get to know him if I if I had the chance. But the vessel matters. You're right, yeah. Okay. So being having that pleading tone is different from having an angry. Tone agreed, having a holy call is different from having a political messaging. Yeah, right, right. Okay, so this is what's this is what's distinct to what I heard from him, is that it seemed to have all he was raw, he was real. He was next generation. He was in his own vernacular, but he had a purity about his his spirit that engaged me and said, I want this for my life, for my family, for for my church, for my nation. And you know, this particular podcast is probably coming out at a time, as we're all starting to think about the beginning of 2025 where for me, I take some time to fast and pray, and I try to go into the year. I know you do too. Dave, spiritually tuned up. And maybe this needs to be on our prayer agenda, that when we go into 2025 we're asking God for an awakening, awakening this year, a Holy Spirit, outpouring that is more than just signs and wonders, although, I mean, how can you say more than just signs and wonders? Would be amazing, but we don't just want the miracles. We want the we want the holy presence of God like we don't want to just see supernatural things happen. We want to see conviction, conviction that would come in regard to sin and righteousness and judgment of people, yeah, you know, turning from their old ways and coming to freedom and and and preparing themselves for for eternity, as well as for this life. And so this My heart is just longing for that. That's my heart's desire, is that we could see that happen. And maybe this year is the year, maybe, maybe Pittsburgh is the place. Maybe Allison Park is the spot like we would love to be, one of those places where God could do what he wants to do that way. And so I want to get my vessel ready, and I want to be purified so that I can carry that message to a world that needs to hear it. And so, I mean, that's the effect that it's had on me. It's good, yeah,
Dave Leake:that's really good. Yeah, yeah. I think, I think, I think we're all hungry for that. I think a lot of people, whether they're Christians or not, are hungry for that kind of message, you know, for that pleading, urging truth that is found in the Word of God. So I guess what you're saying is it's not just the words, it's or it's not, yeah, it's not just the message, it's the tone, and it's the vessel, and it's the so I I guess, yeah, it's probably something that we should begin to think through the lens of, like, preparing for man, preparing for a next great awakening, yes, like, not to sell it short, you know, just as a little mini revival. Yeah, I don't think our culture is too far who cares about what the culture is, I guess is what I'm saying. Like, of course, God could do that, you know? And that's what I want you hear about
Jeff Leake:some, some revivals had happened in the past. So one that happened in in Wales in the early 1900s right around the time of Azusa Street and in and there were so many people that were coming to Jesus that that the bars in certain towns were completely emptied where there had been alcoholism as a way of a cope with life struggles now, all of a sudden, there was such a move of God in Wales that people were streaming into churches rather than into the bars and and the whole nation was shaken by the revival to hit that particular part of the world. Yeah, I know that there are revivals happening right now in different spots, like Tanzania has been in a revival for 10 years. And so it's not that it's not happening anywhere on planet Earth. It's just that I'm longing for it, for my own people.
Dave Leake:Absolutely anything you want to close with today,
Jeff Leake:you know, I would just say, if you feel what I feel, as you heard the little clips, and as we've been talking about this, and you feel the conviction of the Holy Spirit, go with that like follow that. So quiet yourself. Turn off the noise in your life. Get alone with God. Talk to him. Begin to consume the scriptures. Begin to call out to God, if you're if you're longing for a revival, don't wait for somebody else to lead. You start fast and pray. Schedule some things for your life in in January or before, where you begin to take this hunger that's being created and feed it with the things that will make it grow. And if you are exposed to other people who are preaching this message like we just heard from Philip Anthony Mitchell, please send them my way. I would love to get exposed to different things that are happening around the country. I know. I know, just after the pandemic, there was that revival at the University in Kentucky where they Asbury, Asbury, going after God. That was very encouraging, too. Those kinds of moments make you say, okay, something's happening. So I don't know, maybe we're on the cusp of something. Let's hope. Let's believe for it. Let's go after it.
Dave Leake:Amen. Well, hopefully you enjoyed this. We're glad to have you on as always, and just like we always say, you could really help us out, if you're willing to take just two or three. Minutes, if you could leave us a five star review on whatever platform you're listening on, if you're watching on YouTube, you can like and subscribe. You can leave a comment. We'd love to hear what your thoughts are. Share this on social media, whatever you want to do. It would really mean a lot, and it would help us sort of get the word out there. So yeah, we're thankful that you jumped in again. We'll see you guys again next time you.