Allison Park Leadership Podcast

Pornography, Self-Deception, and Other Hidden Traps

• Jeff and Dave Leake • Season 5 • Episode 18

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In this powerful episode, Dave and Jeff dive into the various spiritual blockers that often go unnoticed but significantly hinder our spiritual growth and the flow of God's grace. 

From anger, rage, and bitterness to more challenging issues like pornography and addiction, they tackle it all. Discover practical steps to attain breakthrough and freedom in these areas. 

Join father and son, Dave and Jeff, as they provide insights from scripture, personal experiences, and practical advice on how to remove these roadblocks. They emphasize the importance of confession, accountability, and the power of the Holy Spirit in leading us towards spiritual wholeness.

If you're seeking spiritual growth and long to live in the fullness of God's grace, this episode is for you. Don't miss their conversation on the importance of addressing hidden sins, dealing with anger, overcoming addiction, and much more. Tune in for an episode that can transform your spiritual journey!

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Dave Leake:

In today's episode, we're talking about different kinds of spiritual blockers that can maybe go unnoticed or can maybe feel like they're hopeless to overcome, that are stopping and preventing us from stepping into the full flow of God's grace. We tackle a whole bunch of issues, anger, rage, bitterness, even some hot button ones like pornography and addiction. If you'd like to find out more about how to get some breakthrough and freedom, tune into this episode. Hey everybody. Welcome to the Allison Park leadership podcast, where we have our culture created Conversations. I'm one of your hosts, and my name is Dave, and

Jeff Leake:

my name is Jeff, and we're glad you joined us today. So we're both father and son. We're both on staff at Allison Park church, and you probably know that routine by now, if you've been a listener for some time, and if not, we're glad you've joined us for today's podcast, absolutely.

Dave Leake:

And we want to start off with gratitude. As usual, give some thank yous. This week, we had a review from from an unknown friend that runs a college ministry spelled Jor with like 5r and K

Jeff Leake:

way I gotta read the so he gave a five star review with a comment, and he says, great podcast, great discussions and guests. Love this sharing with friends, too. I think that's a little bit of a irony there. Then he says, Tell Dave, yes, stop picking his beard. Since you started doing video, it's insatiable. The man must be stopped with five explanation exclamation, no,

Dave Leake:

we've been doing video for quite a while, so I'm not sure we're even watching, but I've been picking this beard for years. Jordan Clark,

Jeff Leake:

who's the kayak director at the University of Pittsburgh, and I've been a longtime friend of Dave and part of Allison park for quite some time. He's been a guest at least once on the podcast, and I think we owe him an apology, do we

Unknown:

so?

Jeff Leake:

So in an episode on discipleship, Dave talks about a friend that he has that everybody figured out was Jordan, and because you outed me,

Dave Leake:

all right, we won't go any more into this. I was trying to be subtle. Didn't work out being subtle, okay, because you outed him So Jordan, from my heart, please forgive us, Dave, even though, even though you have completely incorrect views on discipleship, according to Jeff, anyway, all right, let's get into it today. Oh, by the way, we should say thank you. If you've been a part of this for a while, we're so glad you've joined us and are part of this family. If you'd like a shout out, we'd love to shout out at you as well. If you can leave us a five star review, we will be so appreciative. And if it's on Apple podcast, we would love to actually read your name out. And if you're on YouTube, Like and Subscribe. You know that way you can always join us for our new discussions. Today, we are going to be jumping into a conversation about things that are we call them spiritual blockers, things that can get in the way, barriers, roadblocks to your spiritual progress, of you know, getting closer to Jesus and becoming more like him. And there's a whole, whole bunch of stuff that maybe can be sneaky or under the surface, that if we're going to step into the future that we believe God has for you. It's worth taking a second look and examining ourselves. And

Jeff Leake:

yeah, and on the on the on the positive side. First of all, let's talk about this. So we just finished a three day season of fasting and prayer. We had three days of revival service here at Allison Park church. And I'll just say, as a pastor, I look out over the people who are participating. And there's a spiritual hunger right now. There's a growth that's happening right now. The intensity level in terms of our worship experiences have been amazing. I think I look around at different places around the country, and I see this too. So like there does seem to be in our country right now, a hunger for God, and a lot of lot of people are growing spiritually. A lot of people have, I guess, the last couple years have affected us to such a degree that you're making a decision, I'm if I'm in this, I'm really in this, like I'm going for it, right? And so that is something really to be commended. But as we start to move forward and really pursuing God, and we start to grow, we do hit some things that can slow our momentum, that can drain our life, and that perpetually cause a hiccup in our spiritual development. And I think it's good to address those things, because these things, which are oftentimes hidden or private, if not dealt with directly, you know, are devastating to our spiritual development. So we're gonna talk about some of those things. Yeah. So

Dave Leake:

where do you want to start? I have a whole I have a a list that Paul actually writes in Colossians that might be a little

Jeff Leake:

bit of a, let me, let me explain this from a business point of view. First, yeah, there is, there is a business idea, especially in the manufacturing world, called the Theory of Constraints. And the idea is that there's always on the assembly line some point at which the process unduly slows down. There's some kind of a constraint in the in the journey of what is being developed, that if you can address that constraint, it speeds everything. Up. And so I think this is, in a way, the spiritual Theory of Constraints. What we're saying is, there's a flow going on in your life, but there's something that's hindering it. If you can address that hindrance, it will, it will accelerate your spiritual development. And you know, it will, it will release to you peace. It'll get you more results in your prayer life. It, I mean, so many things that can happen. I remember once you saying, Dave, that there's a lot of people that have a lot of potential, but the reason why they're held back is because of some particular issue in their life that will that will probably get to and so, yeah, I mean, so I think Colossians deals with some of those constraint issues, right? Yeah,

Dave Leake:

it's got a whole bunch of stuff on here. Yeah, that can be pitfalls for all of us. So I'll just read a few verses Colossians, three. Three For you died and your life is now hidden with Christ and God. When Christ, who is your life, appears, then you will also appear with Him in glory, put to death, therefore whatever belongs to earthly nature. And then he lists a whole list. Okay, now we get to the issues. So he starts out, he says, but to death, therefore whatever belongs to earthly nature, sexual immorality, impurity, lust, evil, desires and greed, which idolatry. And then skipping down a little further to Verse eight, also rid yourselves of such things as these, anger, rage, malice, slander and filthy language from your lips. Do not lie to each other, since you have taken off your old self with its practices and put on the new self which is being renewed in knowledge in the image of its Creator. So whole bunch of stuff I could but yeah, sexual morality, impurity, lust, evil desires, greed, anger, rage, malice, slander, filthy language. I think, I think a lot of these things. So actually, this verse can came up my mind. We were having our discussion about this because I did a series where I was studying Colossians a little closer, maybe last October. Some of these, I think, are kind of like Sneaky, sneaky things that can be spiritual blockers, because you're not even necessarily aware that they're an issue in your life. You know what I mean? Yeah, like we become, I don't know that, which we sort of ignore a little bit we become desensitized to, and over time, that becomes full blindness. And so sometimes I think, like God has all this amazing stuff in store that he wants to bring us into but it sort of requires us taking a look, taking the blinders off, you know, taking out what was the word you used? The restraining the constraints, you know, removing that constraint so that we can fully step into the flow of God's grace. Because I do believe that God has goodness and amazing plans and a big Destiny full of impact for every believer. But sometimes there are these small, you know, toxic, little blockers. So

Jeff Leake:

there's a couple of metaphors we're working on here. One is this idea, let's say you have a pipe, and there's a flow of water flowing through it, and then the pipe gets real narrow. So what that's a constraint, right? Where all of a sudden there's a blockage in the flow. So, you know, instead of the water pouring through there, it slows down because there's some kind of constraint there. The the passage that you just read, Dave and what you taught on, can you break it down a little bit about putting off and taking on? Yeah, because, because it, because it has this language here of almost like changing clothes, right? So what does that exactly mean? Let's use that metaphor.

Dave Leake:

Yeah, he says, he says, since you've taken off your old self with this practices and put on the new self, which is being renewed, I'll read this in the NLT. It says you have stripped off your old sinful nature and all its wicked deeds, put on your new nature and be renewed as you learn to know your Creator and be like him? Yeah, I think you know. So if you've committed your life to following Jesus, the Bible says that you are now a new creation. The old has come or the old is gone, the new has come like we should not be, the same person, the same man, the same woman that we were when we lived before Christ, because he's given us a new nature. He can give us new desires, new practices. He rewrites our habits. And so, you know, basically, I think Paul's saying like, you're, you know, some of you are like, wearing your old, nasty clothes like you used to have. You're now a royalty. You're now a prince or a princess. And if you're going to live up to the destiny that God's called you to and go to the place where he's called you to go good. It requires us to actually wear the identity of Christ, of the name, take

Jeff Leake:

up the beggar clothing, and put on the the king, kingly, yeah, the royalty. You

Dave Leake:

know you're supposed to be. You know, we are seated currently in the heavenly realms of Christ, right? So, like we should be acting as if that's where we are, right, like living or

Jeff Leake:

or another more modern metaphor, you gotta, you gotta to download the new app, right? Software, new operating system. Okay, so sure. So let's get into it now. Let's talk. What are they? All right? So there's the first couple seem to be in a very common theme, sexual immorality, lust, impurity. Yeah, so let's just talk. Let's have a real direct conversation about this. Dave, you and I have talked about this a bunch. I've talked about this with a lot of younger pastors and leaders about I think at some point, as we were in some open conversations, what, what was said was the biggest issue holding men back in their spiritual life is porn.

Dave Leake:

Okay, probably lust generally, but, yeah, okay, porn

Jeff Leake:

and lust. So tell me about this. I mean, it's not that I don't know. I'm just asking you because tell me about this. I've

Dave Leake:

never experienced any of this before, yeah, but, I mean, like, so,

Jeff Leake:

all right, a lot of younger leaders at Allison Park Church, which is with this, this makes me so happy. Okay, I'll just tell you this makes me so happy that a lot of conversations have been happening without my prompting or without my leadership, because there is a deep desire on the part of a lot of younger men who are a part of Allison Park church that are saying we want to live a lives of purity. And so the conversations that we've had just recently have come because I have discovered, like, oh, man, you mean you guys are getting together to talk about this. Like, this is phenomenal, sure. So for me, when I put it on you David, to say, tell me about this. It's not like, I'm like, I know you got a big struggle with this. I'm saying more like, I know that you, you and Jordan, who we gave a shout out early to and others are leaning into this conversation out of a deep desire to to put on the new self, right? And to live purity, yeah, so, so, so tell me what, what's going on in the next generation. This is really cool. I'm

Dave Leake:

trying to even think of where to start with this. So I guess, like, I probably just have to share part of my testimony, you know, for a long time. So I was never, you know, I was never addicted to what I would say was like pornography. I was never like, you know, going to porn sites and stuff. But for a long period of my life, I really felt totally trapped and stuck in just addictive patterns of, you know, I would try to, I would try my best to put on the new self and be pure and not, you know, not be struggling with my fantasies, or what my eyes are looking at or watching things, man, and especially with the way that the internet is and with the way TV movies are, like, just, you know, there's a there's a word, the pornification of our culture. A lot of our culture is pornified. Like, if you, if you just go on Netflix, it's like almost every show is rated mature for nudity, like, it's like everything has nudity. Now, for some of the young people, especially like Gen Z and younger like who grew up with smartphones and social media, it's all sexualized. So anyway, for

Jeff Leake:

explain that a little bit for people who are my age, because you actually had to tell me, because so my family kind of comes in stages. There's Dave, Alyssa, Josh, and there's Caleb and Jonathan. And when Caleb and Jonathan were in middle school, you as a college student, I think at the time, came to me and said, By the way, I don't know if you know this, but on their phones, there are back doors to everything where they can access stuff. Sure. And I was like, No, I eliminated all those things. And you're like, No, you didn't. There's, there's ways to get to things that you don't have any idea about. So you had to teach me some of the back doors, but, and I think a lot of parents don't know this, yeah, well, let's

Dave Leake:

just, let's just start with the front doors. Okay, like, um, yeah, Instagram, you know, Snapchat, uh, especially, okay, tick tock, especially YouTube, um, most social media sites just, I mean, so everything now has reels or shorts or tick tock, and if you just flip through it, the algorithms are built for sexualized content.

Jeff Leake:

Some of them are just graphic. Some of them are sens sensual, yeah, yeah. And then there's links from that that you can go to things that are much more those are sort of most

Dave Leake:

of those things are a gateway that lead people towards harder and harder stuff. Okay, so going just to quickly finish with me. So, you know, a handful of years ago, you know, I, I, yeah, I decided like to go seek counseling, because I was just, you know, like, it's not like I was totally dominated by lust. It wasn't, you know, living sexually impure like, you know, yeah, had a pure marriage and everything, but just felt like in my own personal life that I wasn't fully able to get free the way that I wanted to. Saw a great counselor help, you know, help me to see that because of the way that sexualized imagery is coming in nowadays, it's better to look at all of that as an addictive pattern. It really is an addiction. So anyway, got into some, yeah, through counseling, I was able to sort of get freedom. We me and a few friends started a group that's committed not just towards accountability, but towards living, you know, not with what we call as like lust management, trying to keep it at a low level, but living totally free above and beyond that. Actually, producer, Matt's in our group as well. We have a number of guys on staff that all meet together, awesome that are committed towards living, you know, not with this as just a lingering issue a monkey on your back that you can ever get free from, but living in total victory. And what I was saying to you is, I It's. My personal opinion, I would guess that. And I think a lot of stats would show this to be true, but that most guys that are, let's say I, it's, I don't know, you know, generations, let's say most, most guys 40 and under. You know, between 10 and 40, I would say 90 plus percent are struggling with some form of addiction to lust. It's a rampant problem, and I think it's one of those things that it feels so hard to even live at a level of where you're managing it successfully, let alone living in freedom, that it's one of those things that we tend to ignore. And here is my story, many, many times I tried to get free from blessed many, many times, you know, through as I was a teenager and even as an adult, and some of it was that I don't think I had the right tools, but it gets discouraging when you really are earnestly trying. Almost

Jeff Leake:

feels like an illusion, right? Like the best thing that you could do is just live with the monkey on your back and lessen its impact Exactly.

Dave Leake:

So they actually have, you know, 12 step programs for this. It's kind of like Alcoholics Anonymous, but it's to get free from less than to live clean, you know, the term there would be sober. And for me, that was really what actually helped me, was to start to work through some of those steps. And that's, that's what our group has done as well. Anyway, all this to say, I think maybe a good starting point as far as blockers would be, it's not actually just for men either. I think, I think studies show that 50 plus percent of women have some level of porn addiction in the younger generations as well. So it is a rampant problem. You know, yeah, so many issues actually stem out of private addiction. Let's

Jeff Leake:

go to the Theory of Constraints now and talk about it from a spiritual stronghold point of view. So if you're living with that, what does that do to your spiritual life? It

Dave Leake:

saps your confidence and makes you question whether or not you're ever going to be able to be free, whether or not you can actually follow Jesus. You worry about if it's going to progress or advance. It causes a lot of fear, what if people find out? A lot of shame, you know, a lot of powerlessness, and the

Jeff Leake:

idea of living in a place where you're going to see the power of God and be using the gifts of the Spirit and go on mission and win people to Jesus, all that's kind of taken away from you, because you're always hesitant, and it's not necessarily

Dave Leake:

taken away from you, but you sort of feel like, I know I'm supposed to do this, but if anybody found out what's happening behind the scenes, I would list out the consequences. It'd be a public humiliation. You know, there's a there's a fear, with any kind of addiction, that I'm the only one struggling. It's isolating, so it's probably just me, or if it's not, nobody else would admit this. There and a lot of ministry roles, there's the threat of you'll lose your job. And I know of people that have been fired when this kind of stuff comes to the surface, comes to the surface, which just, in my personal opinion, I think is ridiculous, because it's all, it's just like, Well, everybody's lying, or everybody's everybody's hiding this, like we definitely need. I think

Jeff Leake:

a lot of it becomes because, okay, generationally, the availability of pornography and in even imagery, has changed radically in the years that I've raised you, sure. So, so, you know, I think we've talked about this before. When I was growing up, availability was limited to a magazine, sure, right? So you had to actually go someplace and get access to it that way, or maybe a porn channel that, you know, you'd have to subscribe to, or whatever the internet when it first got right, you know, invented, even the download speeds were so, so, you know, everything was, was dial up, right, right. So, I think a lot of people who are in the positions of leadership now are in my generation, and they will determine a lot of times, these decisions about people who are in your generation dealing with this. And there may there isn't an awareness, I think, on this part of some people who are older, of the level of intensity, of availability and struggle that's going on in the world today. Yeah, and you guys have educated me a lot on that, which has been so helpful, and then you've led the way in, like, trying to deal with it, so I think we should put off the what do we do about it? Sure, yeah,

Dave Leake:

I didn't expect to go here with this one. No such a big conversation. Thank you for your

Jeff Leake:

vulnerability. I actually think so. Part of why I wanted to have this as one of our topics is I wanted to open this can of worms, because I know that a whole lot of people are out there dealing with this in secret and feeling a ton of shame and fear, and they and I know that there's a longing in people's lives to have the flow of the Holy Spirit going on in their life, and so I you know, let's not let the devil get the best of us. Sure. Let's bring it to the surface. Let's deal with it. Let's figure out solutions for this so that people can remove that constraint spiritually and move forward in their life. But there are other things on the list. Maybe we can come back to solutions. Sure, let's go back to the list for a moment. That's

Dave Leake:

a whole that's a whole ban of worms even.

Jeff Leake:

Thank you. Thank you for like, being open about that and and not just here in this particular moment, but with me and and others. I think that's. Beautiful. Yeah, we need more of that in order for this problem to be addressed. So there's, there's a couple of things that are on the list next that were have been really a struggle in my life. Sure. Okay, and that is so you're talking about greedy, not greedy. No, that's not my very next one. Very next one is greedy. Why

Dave Leake:

don't we stop there? Actually, though, okay, before we move on, I think I know where you're going, actually, because you talked about before. Why don't we agree? This is one of the ones that I really focused on whenever we were doing a study in this as the Northside campus in October, because I don't think you hear a lot of messages or teaching on greed, because greed feels like greed is something for the people that have so much money. Yeah, they have ridiculous cars, they have ridiculous houses, and they just still don't have enough. And so they they're workaholics, and they cheat people, and they're, they're putting their thumb on the little guy, right? Like, we think of that as greed. It's a them category. It's a, yeah, even for people that have a lot of money, it's still a them category. It's, you know, for the

Jeff Leake:

being greedy. How is that a spiritual stopper? So

Dave Leake:

being greedy? So I would say, like for one, we think of greed as as needing more. But actually, Jesus talks about greed and as in conserving what you have. Okay, so it's not forwarding

Jeff Leake:

Yes, holding on to Yeah, he

Dave Leake:

so. So, you know, Luke 12 is this whole parable about somebody who's storing up their crops that way, that way you can retire in style. Okay?

Jeff Leake:

So it's putting confidence in things rather than in God. That's yeah,

Dave Leake:

right? Well, yeah, and yeah. There's actually a proverb that says, I just read this. It's, it says, a rich man's a rich man's wealth is his security. I believe it's one translation says it, and it says, in his imagination, he views them as as high walls, right? Like the idea is, it's only in his imagination, but to a rich person, the security and safety is in the wealth they mess but really, what I wanted to point out in Matthew six, you know, he talks about greed in terms of worry, like worry is obsessing over, obsessing over the clothes we're going to wear, the food that we're going to eat, and so, you

Jeff Leake:

know, going ahead, or the economy, or how it's, yeah, right, right. It's going to happen with my job or whatever. I

Dave Leake:

never really thought of greed as being something that I would really struggle with. But when it comes to do I have enough, maybe I really can't give yet because of the season of my life that I'm in. Maybe I need to limit how much I my

Jeff Leake:

reason just the cycle of worry. It so worry is a chokehold, right? Like worry is a constraint if you're if your spirit is always tied up in knots about what's going to happen, what's going to happen, what's going to happen. How am I going to solve this? How am I gonna solve this? How am I gonna solve this? Worry does tend to choke out your life, and if you don't learn to deal with both worry and greed, I guess you'd say these yes or a pair, it will, it will squeeze your soul, right? And it will keep you from the freedom that comes with trusting God, yeah, and being generous, and, you know, relying on him for but

Dave Leake:

I just want to point out, because I felt convicted by this when I was reading it, it's interesting to think about greed as actually being a symptom, or maybe a worry symptom of greed vice versa. But it's I'm going to hoard what I have, and I'm not going to be generous, and I'm not going to give of what's mine, because I'm not sure that if I give my extra that I'll be safe, you know. But Jesus says, like, well, your security really needs to be in your father. Like, he even provides for the lilies of the valley or the, you know, the sparrows. Like, how much more does he care about you? So don't worry about today. Can anybody add even a single hour of their life by worrying? We counteract greed by putting on the new self, which is generosity and trust, trust that God can do this generosity, not hold and hoard, but so that that's, that's one of the next ones, another constraint, what's, what's

Jeff Leake:

the further ones here? Okay,

Dave Leake:

then we have verse eight, anger, rage, malicious behavior, slander, dirty language. So is the dirty language? Is that the

Jeff Leake:

one that you're gonna Yeah? Remember back in the day, it was one of the early ones, right, right? Yeah. What was, I don't remember what it was called, swearing a sin. Swearing a sin. That was a good episode, yeah, yeah. No, my issue was more, I guess you'd say bitterness. What's the word? Specifically, he has anger and rage, anger and rage, yeah, so probably bitterness, anger and rage. That's where, that's where my early stuck point was in my life. It was carrying offense. It was, it was, it was internalizing my anger, and then when I hadn't dealt with it, oftentimes explosive temper. Yeah, so that is a serious momentum killer spiritually, yeah, if you're caring so if God starts to move in your life, I saw this, this one picture. I don't know who originally preached this, but you know when you plow a field, as you plow the field, one of the reasons why you do that is because every year rocks start to come. The surface, and they're in the way of the growth of the crop. Whatever the seed is that you're planting. As you plow the field, you hit rock. You have to unearth the rocks and toss it aside so that the soil becomes clean right, and you can actually plant some things in there. And every time you begin to move toward God, and you fast and pray and you start to worship, you hit things beneath the surface that are hindering the development of your soul, the fruitfulness of your life, and beneath the surface of my life, especially as a young man, probably teenager into my early 20s, was some intense bitterness that I was carrying around that I had never, ever resolved. I had never learned how to unclench my fist so to speak and release it to God. And for me, learning how to say, I choose to forgive this person. I release this to you, God. I ask you to heal my my hurt inside that that was a total release for me, of freedom in my soul. And actually, I think sometimes these are related. So when you're miserable inside because you're bitter, oftentimes, then you try to distract yourself with with other things. And sometimes bitter people try to distract themselves with porn, sure, or bitter people try to distract themselves with other substances so that they don't deal with what's happening inside. But, but learning how to release your pain to God, yeah, so that you can be healed inside is one of those things that is a massive clog in the pipes. Yeah,

Dave Leake:

right. Okay. Then he says malice, slander. So slander would be another one, I guess, which is born out of bitterness and anger. It's talking bad about other people. I think you can kind of throw gossip in that same category, right?

Jeff Leake:

Yeah, and, and, so let's talk about something that's going on right now. There's a there's a cultural toxicity in the atmosphere of social media. Yeah, that is this whole slander, listening to slander or speaking it politically and culturally, right? And getting caught up in it and repeating it and living in it that is also going to steal your soul. Yeah? Like, if you're trying to make progress with God and you let yourself get caught up into the toxicity of social media, it will, it will ruin you. True, whether it's you speaking it, you know, actually listening to gossip and listen and listening to slander or forwarding it to a friend is every bit as toxic as being the one initiating it. It slander and gossip. It doesn't it isn't just related to the person who's the worst at it. It's if you let it in your spirit, it will affect you in a serious way. There's a lot of things we just went through a semi list here, Dave, that that can get in the way as interference to your spiritual development. Yeah, and you can pray every day, and you can read your Bible every day, but if you're carrying bitterness around, or you're you're on the online looking at porn, or you're online scrolling through all kinds of slanderous toxic activity, sure, you neutralize all the good you're trying to do because of the worrier cycle you're stuck in because you're of your greedy heart, right? Right? So if we're not saying stop reading the Bible, stop going to church, stop spending time in worship and praise, we're saying, as you do that, deal with what's beneath the surface. Yeah, because if you don't, you're going to put that seed in the ground and it's going to get choked out by this, all this stuff that is gonna steal your soul? Sure. So, so maybe we don't talk about what to do with this. Well, there's

Dave Leake:

still more, Okay, two more, by the way. I think years ago, when we did that as swearing sin, it was sort of ambiguous, and some people were like, Jeff said, swear, it's fine. We're like, Jeff said, to sin, I I have a stronger stance on this now. I really do. I thought I was tougher on this than you were swearing. Yeah, no, you got to go back and listen to the I don't think so. Anyway, I will.

Jeff Leake:

So you got to stop picking your beard, and you got to go back and

Dave Leake:

listen. Yeah, that way I can prove Anyway, okay, yeah. But in the end of verse nine says filthy language from your lips, the that kind of is a reference. If you look at the Greek, I can't pronounce this word, ice chrologia. I think vile or obscene language, foul talk. I don't think it's just referring to, like, crude jokes or sexual things. I think it's probably referring to swearing. Okay, and how

Jeff Leake:

would that be a spiritual stopper

Dave Leake:

vile language from your lips. I think that what we say matters. I think the words that we give voice to really does matter. Often. It affects and shapes our reality. It affects how we think. It affects our worldview. And so he's saying, guard your lips, not just what you're thinking, but guard what comes out of your mouth. Okay, I also think that unwholesome

Jeff Leake:

speech might be more than just speaking curse words. It also might be speaking doubt or death. Yeah, I agree, or hateful speech, or things that undermine others, or things that undermine yourself, being very critical, being critical being, you know, voicing things. It don't sound like Jesus. They sound more like the devil, and they cut you, undercutting yourself and everybody around you by what you're saying all the time. What does the proverb say? The The tongue has the power of life and death, and those who love it eats fruit. Yeah. So it might be that you're just sowing. You're just sowing toxicity, and what you're saying that's seeping into your soul and into your home and and into everything around you, and you need to reorient your speech. This

Dave Leake:

one's tough for me. Sometimes, if I'm really tired, it's easy for me to slip into an overly critical mood. I felt like I was getting like that last night. Okay, I came home after a week of, you know, revival week services, and I was with Sarah, and I wasn't even I wasn't being intense, and I wasn't even upset or angry. It's just like little comments I was making. They were often, like, joking. I

Jeff Leake:

was like, Man, I

Dave Leake:

sound really critical. Yeah, Sarah got on me about it, sarcastic, yeah, sarcastic and point, which

Jeff Leake:

does happen to us when we're tired, we haven't eaten, yeah, but, but, yeah, or, but it all can also can mark your life, and really, it undermines everything God's trying to do. Yeah,

Dave Leake:

okay, okay. And then last one he has here is lying. Don't lie to each other. Since you've taken off your old self with his practice, I

Jeff Leake:

probably should say Don't lie to yourself, because a lot of times everything we've talked about up until now, the reason why we haven't dealt with it is because we've been not, not been truthful with

Dave Leake:

ourselves, yeah, isn't it? Isn't it weird how, like, you know, as a preacher, as a preacher, this is probably also something that I'm at risk of, but it's like, sometimes I'm I'm preaching something, and by the way, just to be clear, I'm not thinking of anybody specifically, right now, I've said them before. People are like, you're talking about me. I'm definitely not talking about anybody. In mind. It's just a common experience. You're watching people's faces as you're saying stuff, and because you know of some of the things people are struggling with, you're saying something, and you you watch and they're nodding their head, but you're like, they're nodding it about somebody else. Do you ever had this happen where you're looking at somebody thinking like, God, and then on the flip side, sometimes I thought that, and then later, a few days later, I realized Holy Spirit convicts me. Like, Oh, you were thinking about some people that, you know, personal things about them, but this is something that you need to deal with. So I do think that that's a common thing. I mean, that's what Jesus talks about with the log in your eye, right? Yeah, like, it's sometimes the thing that we have in our own eyes so big that, like, you don't even notice it's there. You're just like, that person has this and that person,

Jeff Leake:

well, well, so and I don't, I'm not thinking about anybody in particular right now either. Okay, I wish I could, because this would be helpful, but I've actually watched certain spiritual leaders, high profile, prominent people, who preach against a particular sin on a regular basis, and then later have been discovered to be dealing with that very thing. Sure, it's almost like they were exercising their own guilt and shame by coming at it hard in the pulpit like they failed. They felt so mad at themselves that they failed. They felt indignant about it. They took it into the platform, and they preached against this particular sin. And you're like, man, that guy's really righteous. Look how, look how righteously angry he is at this particular issue. And then you discover he has that issue like, that's, that's so we all have it, have this tendency to lie to ourselves. Yeah, we do. Everybody does. Everybody does. And when you start lying to yourself, then you then you have a tendency to sometimes want to fudge the truth with others, because you don't want to Sure. You don't want to be found out about something, or you don't want to have to deal with the conversation. And so you start to hedge a little bit and and and before you know it, you're telling, you're telling lies that cover the last lie. Yeah, and this is

Dave Leake:

the topic that I've thought about for years. Writing a book on, I have a whole thing, whole notes, folder on self honesty, but then I'm always like, but will it help people? It's like, if you're lying to yourself, are you gonna read a book about how you shouldn't lie to yourself? It's like, I don't need that one. I'm totally honest.

Unknown:

I know, to get people

Dave Leake:

stuck there. But I've had a notes folder for like, four years on that topic, because I think it's interesting how that's possible. It's like Jesus says, you know, those who hear my words and don't do what they say is like somebody who looks himself in a mirror and then immediately forgets what they look like as soon as they walk away. And that's such a common issue is, you know,

Jeff Leake:

speaking of this, I actually had this thought, one day, we're all going to stand before God, and we're all going to be and we're all going to be judged, right? Those of us who are believers in Jesus won't be judged as to whether we go to heaven or hell, because through Christ's sacrifice on the cross, we're promised heaven, right, but we're still judged and evaluated on how we lived. And I've thought to myself, what would that moment be like? Because I there are some folks that I know that have, that have left the path and done some devastating things. What would that judgment be like? And I think part of it will be that we'll see our lives with crystal clarity, yeah, and we'll and for the first time, maybe, maybe ever, we won't have the benefit of being able to. Deceive ourselves, okay, yeah, we'll see it for what it is. And actually, when you get into the presence of the Holy Spirit today, one of the gifts the Holy Spirit brings is conviction, yes, which is this ability to see your life for a moment with the clarity of God's vision of who you are. This is what happens with Isaiah in chapter six, when he says, Woe is me, because I'm a man of unclean lips, and I dwell among a people of unclean lips. And so I think there is something that's a gift to us, is that the Holy Spirit exposes us and makes us see our lives truthfully, so that we'll be able to deal with these things that in our life, that one, when we get to heaven and our judge will regret, and number two, that are stopping our spiritual progress today. So now we went through the list, Dave, what? What do we do now? Like, I think a lot of people are asking, so

Dave Leake:

reference, you were referencing a verse there, yeah, I think it's in John 16. John 16 eight, and it says, The Spirit will convict, yeah, unless I go. So Jesus talks about how, you know, it's better for you if I go away. It says in verse seven, unless I go away, the advocate, that's the Holy Spirit will not come to you. But if I go, I will send him to you. When He comes, He will prove the world to be in wrong about sin and righteousness and judgment, about sin, because people don't believe in me, etc. Yeah. So you know, one of the things Holy Spirit does do, that's actually for our benefit, is convicts of sin. That way we don't stay stuck there. Yeah?

Jeff Leake:

You know, even as we're talking about this particular podcast, even right now, I feel the presence of the Holy Spirit. So, so I just want to say, if you're listening to this, and God is using this in your life to point out something to you that was, that's a stopper, yeah, this is not designed for your condemnation. This is not designed for you to feel shame. The Holy Spirit's role, and really the desire of this podcast is to point things out for your benefit, so that you deal with what you need to deal with, and don't end up on Judgment Day with regret or living perpetually in something that's slowing you down. Yeah, you

Dave Leake:

know John 1613 says, when the Spirit of truth comes, He will guide you into all truth. I think, like the truth that we don't always see is that there are certain things in our life that are barriers and blockers, yeah, and it's hard for us to see the truth, but that's part of what the Holy Spirit does, and He convicts us to lead us into truth, so that we don't stay in self deceit and falsehood,

Jeff Leake:

and you'll know the truth, and the truth will set you free. Amen, right? Jesus is able, like, the stuff you're stuck in today, you don't have to stay stuck in because Jesus is powerful enough to break that off your life. If you do what?

Dave Leake:

If you repent and you follow, follow him, is what you're saying, right? So okay, so let's talk about, where did I miss? Where you're going though, like, what

Jeff Leake:

do we do now? Practice now, practically? So let's, let's go back to the porn thing. Okay, what do so? What do you do? So you say, okay, Dave, you just described me. I'm in this situation. I want to deal with this. What do I do?

Dave Leake:

Well, okay, are you so, I mean, we're going to talk about, there's, there's a whole list of things like, for, for each of these different block respectable, since

Jeff Leake:

this is the most, okay, okay, this is the head of all the issues we brought up. That's the heaviest one. This could be a whole pot. Maybe it should be. It's sure. Maybe we'll and maybe we could bring somebody on that could has an expertise in this area, that we could talk to them. But, right? Okay, but just get, let's get the basics, right. Okay, the first thing I think of is James 516 says, Therefore, confess your sins to one another, pray for one another that you might be healed. Actually, a lot of the things that we're talking about starts with that verse. So confession to somebody else is not You're not confessing to them so that God will forgive you, because God forgives you in Jesus, you don't have to confess to anyone else for forgiveness. When you confess to someone else, you're confessing to bring it to light so that you can be set free, because the power of private sin is in its secrecy. And so if this is a secret sin in your life, now who you confess it to matters like you have to go to someone that you can trust, that will keep confidence that's a spiritual leader or brother in your life. And what would you what would you say, Dave, what would be the I mean, I have a whole bunch of things I could go through. Okay, tell us a bunch of things then. Okay, so

Dave Leake:

I'm like, writing down notes to try to see, like, like, what I don't want to forget. Okay, so, for one, I think. Okay, so, so when it comes to less, this is just for men or for women. It starts with like, I am done with this and I don't want to play around with this anymore. It starts by getting serious. Okay, then it starts. The second step is to often, for many people, it's to it's to be open to the fact that maybe I'm addicted. Maybe this isn't something that I could just stop whenever I want and live in total freedom. Maybe I'm actually addicted because there's a compulsion to it. There's a compulsion. The definition of addiction is, you really want to stop, but you're not able to Okay, so if you really, really want to stop and you can't, that's, that's an addiction level, sin pattern. If you want to stop and you can stop, then do like, just you can stop, then great. Good for you. That's awesome, okay, but for the majority people, it isn't. It is. I mean, it is. It's like an opioid. It's a mental opioid. It's extremely addictive, especially any type of pornography, and the way that the internet is it just is a funnel and a cycle. So let me just go through a list of stuff. So okay, we you talked about confessing, then, you know, starting to get help for your addiction. I Okay, you everybody who needs some form of accountability, but the accountability, the secret is, it can't just be lust management accountability. It needs to be freedom based accountability. So lust management is, ah, yeah, failed again. Probably should have reached out, like, I should have done something differently. Okay? And it's like, you know, you sort of are really hoping to get clean, to get free, but there's an expectation that, like, a few weeks without having any mistakes, is great, and most people are doing way worse than this, than me. And I definitely would love to, but it's so hard, at least, I want to live at a level that's better than where I was. That's fine, that's good. But there actually is the ability to say I am never going to engage in any type of act like this ever again. There is a way to get that, that out of determination, just out of, read, just out of a like, it's

Jeff Leake:

that level of seriousness. So, yeah,

Dave Leake:

I mean, there's the expectation of victory. Yeah, there's a there's a there's a bunch of studies that have been shown that actually, willpower is a limited resource. You know, you cannot just consistently be at a 10 out of 10 trying your hardest and actually get someone to work like the willpower is a limited resource. Studies have shown like you shouldn't start more than a few habits at the same time. If you start like 345, habits, you're actually splitting your energy so that none of them are going to stick, because you only have so much willpower. You can't get clean from cigarettes, from alcohol, from lust, anything like this, from any type of addiction, by just trying really hard. There needs to be a process and a system. So accountability is a part of it. One big thing that, you know, I think, Andy Stanley talked about years ago that we've mentioned a lot in churches, the idea of guardrails, it's setting up systems so that you don't actually get right up to the edge, and then you fall, it's like so one type of guardrail is online software for computer and phone, like covenant eyes. You know, I have a subscription that I pay monthly, where it's on my phone and my computer, and it constantly takes rapid screenshots of everything on my looking at my computer on my phone, and it sends it to specific accountability partners that I have. So that's, that's, that's a great part of it. And then I would say you

Jeff Leake:

actually have a ton of, like, you have a i There's a lot of apps on your phone that you just don't have. Yeah,

Dave Leake:

yeah. So for me, my guardrails are pretty intense. I don't have the app store unlocked, so I can't just download apps whenever I want. I have coveted eyes. I have limitations on, you know, sites in my browser. I don't have any social media at all on my phone. So, like, those kinds of things. And then I would say the last thing, like, for those who are, like, really serious, there are, there are purity groups that help to work through steps to actually get clean and sober. And there are part of what inspired me, there are guys that have, like, 1215, 20 years without any engaging at all, and these kind of activities that were actually, you know, as bad as you can get. You know what I mean? Now,

Jeff Leake:

sometimes this kind of a process also makes you deal with the things beneath the surface of even porn that are driving you to it, because a lot of times there really wounds that you're carrying, sure is hurts that you're carrying, that there's right addiction injections, right? You know, things that you may grow up, abuse that you experience. There's just a ton of stuff that might be beneath the surface of that. And the symptom is porn, yeah, and both the wound down inside, the

Dave Leake:

symptom is addiction. Okay? The medication is porn. Okay, there you go. Yeah. So, like, I think I shared this before my counselor talked about this theory for addiction that says that the minute that you begin to use coping mechanisms, like drugs or like, you know, lust, to medicate trauma or needs or stress is the minute that you stop maturing emotionally. So if you if you're at age 10 or age 12, whenever pornography or alcohol or drugs became a coping mechanism to deal with the hardships of life, you actually haven't yet built up enough of the strength emotionally to cope and deal with those stresses the way that God made because that became your escape, escape hatch. Yeah. And so it actually does take a strengthening process to grow past that point. But all this to say, I just, I got to address it. I think the natural reaction for a lot of people hearing this, especially for guys that have been stuck in this for years, is to be like, Yeah, I don't need that. Like, that's almost everybody's like. That's, that's too intense. I'll even tell you this. This even just the name of the types of groups that are 12 steps, Alcoholics Anonymous is for alcoholics that are recovering. The name for for recovering, you know, people from lust addiction, is sexaholics anonymous. Yeah. So even that, like, I'm not ever gonna call a sex Hall, anonymous group, or go to one of those. It doesn't mean that you know you have to be someone that was sleeping around with hundreds of partners or anything like that. It could just be that you feel like you're stuck in an addiction. It takes a human to get clean from anything,

Jeff Leake:

any of the things on the list. I know what you're gonna say. It takes humility. It takes a

Dave Leake:

massive amount of swallowing your own pride and saying, I'm done with this, because even so, they have all these, you know, really easy way to access this. They have all these essays, what that is, for short, for sex, health, anonymous. They have all these essay online groups where you can call in anonymously. And they have whole process to go through, like, even just, I'm gonna look up this number get a call, is extremely intimidating, and then it's like, I'm not like all these people, yet, a lot of people who are listening to this can't get clean and they haven't gotten freedom, and so like, at some point you just got to get ruthless and realize your willpower is not going to be enough. You can't kick the habits that you want to kick just by trying harder. It hasn't worked for you. It's not gonna work for you, which, by the

Jeff Leake:

way, we should add to this the other the other 12 step groups are also amazing for absolutely, if it is alcohol or if it's drugs, or if it's codependency, or whatever happens to be all of those things, like we have a Celebrate Recovery at all Park. That is such a gift, because it's all of that stuff. But, yeah. But if you are ruthless, and you do repent, and you do come, come, come clean with it, and you recognize what's broken in you and you and and you start to move towards dealing with the stoppers inside, the reward is freedom.

Dave Leake:

Absolutely,

Jeff Leake:

it actually is possible. Oh, my goodness. I

Dave Leake:

know that it feels like it's a myth for some people, but they're it actually is possible to get really clean your life

Jeff Leake:

feels so much lighter. Yeah, it does. It feels like you're floating around. You don't feel heavy anymore. You can you when you move into your prayer time, you don't have to spend the third, first 30 minutes of it calling out to God for forgiveness. You go right into intimacy with God, and you feel like, Man, I'm doing this. And and so there's, there's, there is a healing, there is a wholeness, there is a freedom. It's possible. And

Dave Leake:

I just like, let me, let me. Like, like, land, we have to, I still have to hit this. We got time landing the whole conversation. But I would bet, I seriously, like, I would bet my life savings, which is not a future bet right now anyway, whatever veil that is, I would bet, seriously. I would bet 90 plus percent of men have a serious problem with this that are at least under 40. I'm not sure what, but like, just from knowing people, it's not like it's only people that aren't in ministry. This is also ministers as well. I think that one of the most terrifying things to pastors around the country ministers, is, if this ever got exposed, I'd be done for but it's like, you know, we're seeing all kinds of people around the country that are falling for all kinds of things. It's from unexposed problems that have never been dealt with over the years, how almost every affair starts with an addiction to pornography like these, things escalate and grow if they're never addressed and so or

Jeff Leake:

if discovered, can just be a devastating impact on your wife. Absolutely. Yeah, yeah, right. Sure. It may not even lead to to something like that, but it can. It just can rip apart that your intimacy and the confidence that you your you know your wife has, or or just the you know, the strength of your marriage, at

Dave Leake:

least it does that. But you know, there's a there's a book that's it's a secular book that's written on the psychology of sexual addiction called Out of the Shadows every crate like crazy, serious jail time type of addiction all starts in the same pattern, and it starts in the same level, like flashing or voyeurism, or any, any of these crazy, you know, when I say crazy, if you're struggling with that, I don't mean to belittle. I'm saying, I'm saying large scale, yeah, life dominating of as, Wow, that's really out there. Went to jail for, yeah, like, pedophilia, almost all of these so often they start in trauma as a kid, but, like, where, where they really grow is out of the same addiction. It's usually porn addiction. So it's not to say that if you're struggling, you're going to end up being, you know, having a crazy, massive problem, but it's not worth the risk of letting something like this develop over the next five years. By the way, you

Jeff Leake:

always offer some good book advice. So out of the shadows is what that's called, yeah, that's

Dave Leake:

just on the addiction cycle. It's a really intense and scary read. Okay? Honestly, it's like, whoa, whoa, you know, but, um, but it at

Jeff Leake:

least reveals the seriousness of this particular issue. It

Dave Leake:

does reveal the serious. Weakness of it. There's, there's a book that a lot of my friends really like that. It's fine. I shouldn't say it, because it's a very good resource, and it hasn't. So for me, I don't feel like it addressed exactly where I was, but I know that for a lot of people, it's really helped them. It's a Christian based one called unwanted that deals with that. Yeah, and then there's a lot of, I know John Verbier

Jeff Leake:

has a book on this too, okay, remember the title of it now? But

Dave Leake:

there's also a whole bunch of books that are for recovery, you know, programs like essay, like, there's one called the white book that's all about, you know, recovery. And so you can look into it. You can Google it. You know, specifically, you're going to probably have to look in the zone of sexual addiction recovery, but there's all kinds of resources out there. So I shouldn't have said that unwanted isn't good. It's it's one that a lot of people love.

Jeff Leake:

I think you said that properly. You said it in a balanced way. Yeah, and so, yeah. So if you've we went through the whole list, let's not just limit it now to to lust and porn and sexual immorality, as the scripture listed. There's also the the anger and rage, there's the greed, there's the, you know, unwholesome speech, things that aren't good, that are coming out of your life, whatever it happens to be on the list that we read in Colossians chapter three, the first gift that comes from just a discussion like this is the conviction of the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is expressing God's love to you by pointing out to you the things that are that are damaging you, the patterns of life and behaviors that are a part of the old life, but don't have to be a part of your new life in Christ. And this is not designed to drive you under. It's designed to bring you to the surface. And then the second step is you got to find someone that you trust, and you got to say it out loud, whatever the issue is, you say, I'm gonna deal with bitters for my whole life, or, man, I got a problem with the way that I'm talking. Would you keep me accountable for my speech? Or, you know, I'm dealing with, I think, an addiction to porn, and I gotta, I gotta, you know your small group leader, your pastor, whoever it is, somebody in your life you gotta, you gotta get honest with we also do something called Breakthrough weekend, which is coming up in November at Allison Park Church, which is a whole weekend designed specifically to bring this stuff to the surface and start the process. However, going through one weekend with something that is an addictive pattern won't be enough. Typically, you also need to take some additional steps with that. But the heart is, look, I know many of you, some of you are in ministry and you're listening to this podcast. Some of you are growing in Christ and you're new believers. Some of you are just hungry for God. Maybe you're even away from God right now, and the reason why you're away from God is because of one of these things that we're talking about. All of this in this conversation is really designed so that we can say to you, come on back home, man. God loves you so much. He doesn't want you to be stuck in this anymore. You can be free. Jesus died for you, and he doesn't want to leave you stuck. He doesn't want to leave you in bondage. You can break this. We believe in you. We want to stand with you. Be honest about it. Come on, let's, let's all go somewhere. Let's not live our lives and wait for judgment day and say, Oh man, I probably should have dealt with that. Let's, let's, let's, let's face up to it, be honest with ourselves and and do the hard work that's necessary to live in freedom. Because when you live in freedom, it is amazing, sure. Oh my goodness. Hard work to get there when I got free of bitterness inside. I'll just tell you, it's like I was floating. Oh my goodness. It just was so good. And if I hadn't, I wouldn't be married to melody today. Yeah, you you would have a mom and dad that were broken up because I was I was miserable and reactive and angry and filled with temper, and who knows what would have happened in my life if I hadn't gotten free of that. So whatever it is that's holding you back, you gotta address it so that you can be set free properly.

Dave Leake:

And it just, yeah, I think for me, for a long time, it felt like this is impossible to really get free free, like it's, it's, obviously, there's a world where I could have this managed to, where it's not a big deal. And hopefully, like, you know, I think for me too, when it, when it came to getting free from lust, I was like, Oh, well, like, I'm sure, like, the finish line is you get married, and then it all goes away, yeah, you know, but the myth, isn't it? It is addictive. Patterns are addictive patterns, that's right, there is, yeah, there is hope to get free. There is a way that you,

Jeff Leake:

although marriage is an amazing outlet, sure, right, it is. It is a place where you can, you can express the God given desires you have in a in a way that's proper.

Dave Leake:

But if you bring addiction and it complicates it so much, yeah, well, and

Jeff Leake:

a lot of people bring porn into the marriage, absolutely, even more complicated, I

Dave Leake:

would say, most, not a lot of people, most, wow,

Jeff Leake:

yeah, that's heartbreaking, but it's

Dave Leake:

just, it's heartbreaking, but it just like, man, it needs to be understood. Because I think most people think this is a crazy problem that I have, or it's not really that much of

Jeff Leake:

a problem, or I'm the only one right. A lot of people when they hear something like, Well, I'm probably the only one. What you're saying is, yeah, exactly. Look to your right, look to your left. You see someone with. Same challenge. We all need to help each other. Let's get free, right? Yeah, yeah.

Dave Leake:

You probably look down, down the row and either somebody's free from an addiction they had, right? Or they're still there, right? You know, I've, I don't think I've actually ever met someone, ever that has never struggled. I know of people that didn't struggle up until being married a dude as a dude, sorry. So anyway, or I should say, in my age range, okay, we're sort of stuck there now. I don't want to stay too long on this. But yeah, I believe that what God has for every single person this year as a right now, kind of a word, is to step into a greater intimacy with God, a greater purity, you know, away from shame and living in freedom and in God's goodness, and God still loves you, even if you're stuck in one of the types of old behaviors and sins. I think that's

Jeff Leake:

one of the lies the devil says too, is he doesn't love you anymore. You can't be forgiven. You're just too bad you've sinned too many times. The blood of Jesus Christ can't cover this if you were really serious. If you really were saved, you wouldn't be doing this anymore. There's just so many lies that he throws

Dave Leake:

at it's probably even those are, those are more, not they're extreme. But I think a common thing is I'm a disappointment to God, or like, God's never happy with me. Someday, maybe God will be happy with me, but that's he's just, he's never going to be happy with me now, because I just can't, you know, I like, I don't know if God made a mistake or if this is just all my fault, but this is just who I am and I can never get and it's like, those kinds of things, you know? It's like, well,

Jeff Leake:

let me just, let me just speak to that you are not a disappointment to God. He loves you so much. He's disappointed in what, where what you're stuck in, yeah, but not in you, and he and he knows what's in you, and he knows the greatness that's in you, and He created you with purpose, and he's not disappointed with you. He is a loving Heavenly Father that's trying to call you out of it so that you too will feel good about your life. But he isn't disappointed in you. He He just, oh, man, if people could see and understand how God really feels about them. That's one of the things that the devil tries to use against you, is that somehow God looks down on you. He so he wants you to be free way more than you do a lot,

Dave Leake:

I think a lot of people that have felt stuck in a pattern, especially a sin pattern, for a long time, feel rejected by God because they feel rejected by themselves. Yeah, they're so disappointed with themselves. But that that I think is one of the most effective traps of the enemy, because that's not actually how God feels. No, you know, Jesus died for us and covered all of our sins and but sometimes

Jeff Leake:

I think I know there's another part, part to this. We lean into that because it gives us the safety to stay where we are. It's almost like believing that God's rejected me and I'm rejecting me and I can never change Well, that just allows me the room to keep going. That's

Dave Leake:

one side. The other side is, if I don't reject myself, if I if I let myself off easy, then I'm not taking this seriously. Yeah, and I can't this is, I know this is a big deal. I don't want to, like, not feel guilty, because I can't stop this, and if I stop feeling guilty, then I just won't even care. But that's, that's, that's also, you know, I got like, like, I feel like, you know, when I was, when I was a teenager, I felt like I heard God speak to me. Like, who are you to hold yourself in unforgiveness for something that I've already forgiven you for. Like, if I've forgiven you, you can't not forgive you for this. Yeah. And I was like, Ah, okay, yeah. So I think we need to come to the you know, it's God's kindness that draws us to repentance. What the Word says, Well,

Jeff Leake:

so, so I know we're coming to close the episode. Let me just say, Dave, I'm thank you for sharing. Like, you have you, you're like, a wealth of resource on this, and I think you're this podcast has the potential to really help a lot of people and on whatever issue that we've discussed. But go back, if let me just challenge you, go back and read through Colossians chapter three. Let the Holy Spirit process with you on some things. And then take a step, just at least take the first step, yeah, go to someone and say, I want to deal with this and and then one step at a time, move forward, but take at least one step. God has. God wants the the flood to throw through your your life as a vessel with no clogs in the pipe whatsoever, right? He wants to remove the strongholds and strangleholds from your life, and he wants to bring you into freedom and healing. But you got to agree with him on it. You got to let him

Dave Leake:

bring you out of this. Yeah, absolutely. All right, well, that was kind of a little heavy, but I hope it's restored of this in people, because I do believe that there is hope and that God obviously does love you, you know, and so if you've been struggling with shame or condemnation, just want to close with that, that like the love of God, the grace of God, is there for you. So just this is your year to make a change. This is your year to step into freedom, to unclog the blockers. And God gives us what we need, God supplies us. So maybe I don't know. Do you just want to close in prayer before we So

Jeff Leake:

Holy Spirit, we thank you for who you are and the fact that you give us the gift of conviction, not condemnation. You're not putting a heavy shame on us, but you're revealing to us truth about ourselves so that we can be honest with ourselves and deal with what's there. I pray that the conviction would lead us to hope, to the hope that the cross is more than enough, and that the community of believers that I belong to can help me as I make confession, get free. I pray that the people that this podcast would lead to stories of changed lives as people step into freedom and wholeness in Jesus name, amen, amen.

Dave Leake:

All right, hey, well, thank you again for joining us as always. Man, there are some ways that you could really help us out, even if you just like and subscribe. If you're on YouTube, you can hit the bell notification. You know, share this with your friends. Share it on social media if you are listening to it on any platform that allows you to review and give us a five serve you that's helpful. You can subscribe on Spotify or Apple podcasts, or whatever it is, but all of that helps us to make this more accessible to other people. So anything that you can do would be so helpful. And again, we just want to say thank you for joining us again. Today, we'll see you guys again next time you.